1. M-audio Gforce Minimonsta Minimoog Modeled Synth

Hi, Sorry to slip to off-topic but here's my question: What would you suggest for best VA synthesizer for emulating those old analog synthesizers like Moog, old Rolands (like Jupiter, Juno), Prophet? I had few months Arturia's (another French company specialized on modeling) Origin desktop module but it had so many hardware problems so I had to cancel the whole deal.

What I liked with Origin was its basic analog sound; they use this TAE-engine which at least to my ears give some nice 'analog warmth' or 'phattyness' which is not there in many digital VA-sounds. Now I am back in the beginning of searching this kind of thing.

Iconic Analog Synth Sound - on Steroids! The GForce Minimonsta virtual synth begins with classic analog synthesizer sound and adds an onslaught of cool new features. For starters, instead of giving you just one LFO - the Minimonsta lets you assign an LFO to just about any original parameter. That includes resonance, filter cutoff. The Minimoog V is a software instrument for Mac and PC compatible with all standard formats (VST, DXi, Audio Units, MAS, RTAS, HTDM, and more). For those of you looking for the closest Minimoog-emulation possible, GForce Medias Minimonsta is a much more accurate and better sounding softie than Arturias, plus it.

There're quite many options but problem is that it's quite impossible to test most of those machines before buying. How about these for example: Access Virus (TI2) Nord Wave / Lead 2X (and for lower price there's new M-Audio Venom, Roland Gaia, Alesis Micron, Microkorgs etc.). Ecaroh wrote: What would you suggest for best VA synthesizer for emulating those old analog synthesizers like Moog, old Rolands (like Jupiter, Juno), Prophet? Funny you should ask. I just spent the last week researching the best option in a VA including real vs. Emulated, and I finally settled on the Oberheim emulation called OP-X Pro II.

I am going through all of the presets now in fact, and I feel like it is the right balance of convenience, versatility, and analog/digital warmth. They also have great presets for Prophet, Moog, Jupiter, etc., so I think you will like it.

I almost bought a Prophet VS for $1800, but it was on eBay, and I finally realized how insane that was. In fact, there is someone selling a MemoryMoog on eBay for $13,000! The prices are insane for no other reason than bragging rights.

Sonic Projects is having a sale right now, so you might want to check out the demo: I also looked closely at the Dave Smith stuff (read reviews and listened to demos), as well as some alternative old gear, and I do own Arturia Moog Modular (which I also recommend, but it is a bit heady to program), Sample Moog (which is great too), VectorSector (one of the best Prophet VS emulations, but Augur is very good too), and a few others. I am very pleased with my recent addition of OP-X Pro II. Basically I want to have hardware VA synth but perhaps I will still try some new real analog synths too. (I already have some softsynths like Arturias Minimoog V and Analog Factory.

What I am trying here is in fact to get rid of my Mac setup on stage ) I'd really like to put to test for example Moog Slim phatty vs. DSI Mopho Keyboard. However I need not only monophonic lead sounds (which are of course important) but also polyphonic pads etc. Also I'd like to have basic effects also. So that's why my main priority is now VA. Any comments on new Virus line? It has marvellous specs and history too, but is it capable of delivering old school analog sounds also?

Ecaroh wrote: Basically I want to have hardware VA synth but perhaps I will still try some new real analog synths too. (I already have some softsynths like Arturias Minimoog V and Analog Factory.

What I am trying here is in fact to get rid of my Mac setup on stage ) I'd really like to put to test for example Moog Slim phatty vs. DSI Mopho Keyboard.

You mentioned Origin desktop and TAE and these are emulation technologies (i.e. Software), and this is what I was grappling with myself.' Real' hardware or software that emulates. The OPX is also an emulation of the hardware of the OBX in terms of oscillator behavior and character. In fact, each 'voice' is a separate object that behaves similar to a real analog oscillator. I was ready to buy a Voyager or even a used Prophet T8, but there was one thing I could not get around.you still have to grapple with getting that sound into your DAW when you need it.

You also have to deal with external soundbanks, calling up the right presets, etc. When a softsynth is much more integrated. Pianoteq is software, but it emulates much more than the sound of a piano.it emulates a piano physically. This is the same idea behind the OPX, and when I listened to it (and compared it to 'real' recordings and samples) I felt that it acheived the same level of emulation that Pianoteq has. Watch to get a better idea. The only other option is to buy an external Moog or Dave Smith (or used).I decided that I did not want to deal with the limited voices, maintenance, and disconnect from my DAW. EvilDragon wrote: Forget Arturia, they suck.

I did not like their Prophet V, VS, or CS-80 emulations.they were simply OK. I did like the personality of the Moog Modular though, and I got it for very cheap. I would recommend only the Moog Modular. It was very disappointing to find that new synths (like those from Dave Smith) are very often reviewed as being 'thin' compared to older analog synths.

I even saw prices for old MiniMoogs higher than new Voyagers.there is an unnatural romanticizing of older synths IMO. So it seems that you need to buy an older analog if you really want that (so called) 'analog sound'. You can get a decent refurbished Prophet 10 or Prophet T8. Be prepared to spend about $10,000 though.

And then you will be so afraid to take it out of the studio that it will not meet your needs anyway. It might be worth mentioning that the new has the Oasys analog modelling engine; I have an Oasys PCI that does have some of the best (emulated) analog sounds I have heard to date. However, it's not really something I can take out on the road, so it remains mostly unused. If Korg came out with an Oasys analog modeling keyboard I might take another look (I don't need 9 modeling engines!). In the mean time, I think soft synths are the best way to get your fix for those older sounds without spending a fortune.

There is also something from Tom Oberheim called that starts at $3495. Soooo you need two for 8 voices.that'll be $6,990 please!

You can always peruse (like me!) if you want to try to find an old synth to spend a fortune on. EvilDragon wrote: Forget Arturia, they suck. Great software synths: GForce Minimonsta, VAZ Modular, u-he Zebra 2, u-he ACE, Camel Audio Alchemy, OPX-Pro II, TAL synths (free), Elektrostudio synths (free). Can you be more specific about Arturia? What's the main problem there?

I compared (their) Minimoog V to GForce Minimonsta and to my ears Arturia had more analog character. Minimonsta had quite nice presets but it sounded very digital. IMO this is maybe one of the problems with Arturias products (in fact in all of them): those presets suck. I remember that in Minimoog V there wasn't any usable lead or pad sound when I got it. Same critic goes to Origin as well.

But after little tweaking it was easy to get what I want. (BTW Origins Minimoog sounded better than software Minimoog V). Other thing is that they still have lot of bugs and incompatibility with many DAWs and then very angry and frustrated users (just check Arturias forum).

But in Origin there's a TAE parameter which can be 0-100. Testing with this gave me quite good idea what is the Arturias superiority over many digital VA emulations (TAE=0). And like JR, I like Arturias Moog Modular; I cannot say how faithful it is to original monster but it really has nice sound. But like said I am not searching software at the moment nor those older or newer real analog solutions. And I don't see any reason to go to Reseptor: my mac doesn't have any serious issues on stage or anywhere. I just want to have (if possible) simple all-in-one hardware solution with or without keyboard.

Basically (nearly) knob per function should be there. I might like Nord Lead 2X concept, but it doesn't have effects. Nord Wave seems to be little expensive (cause its sample playback functions?). Waves basic synth is quite simple and perhaps limited and I must say that testing it in the local store I wasn't impressed worth of 2000e. And like Lead, it has also not very good keyboard. Ecaroh wrote: I just want to have (if possible) simple all-in-one hardware solution with or without keyboard. Basically (nearly) knob per function should be there.

I might like Nord Lead 2X concept, but it doesn't have effects. Nord Wave seems to be little expensive (cause its sample playback functions?). Waves basic synth is quite simple and perhaps limited and I must say that testing it in the local store I wasn't impressed worth of 2000e. And like Lead, it has also not very good keyboard. Your original post asked 'What would you suggest for best VA synthesizer for emulating those old analog synthesizers like Moog, old Rolands (like Jupiter, Juno), Prophet?' I don't think you are going to find a lot of this in the Nord line (it's wave based, correct?).

So basically you want a synth that has lot's of knobs, can produce good analog sounds, has onboard FX, and is inexpensive? Don't we all! You might want to take a look at the or the.

They have limited FX, but they have 'tons of knobs'. The PolyEvolver only has 4 voices by the way, but there is an expansion for $1,599. Please let us know what you find. I had DSI Tetra for some time but obviously 4 voices wasn't enough for me and also lack of FX. Anyway main thing for selling it was its lack of knobs and also bugs in its editor. Still I disagree with Mr.Dragon about Arturia; sound is not that bad. Their main problems and lack of know-how deals more with experience with making hardware.

I don't trust Origins build quality. Anybody here familiar with Virus? Does it give you (also) classic vintage sounds? I don't mind if it can do many other things as well but still I want to have my favorite moogish leads and pads. In fact this is the way I tend to measure those machines. First I take just one oscillator saw or pulse and tweak my simple jazzlead to check the basic parameters and how does it sound. I have played real moog so I have an idea what I wanna hear.

(And if you want to know what has been on of the biggest disappointments to me, was Roland Gaia; I know it's not trying to be Moog, it's more like SH-101, but still. I had it for testing for couple of days and I could not get a single decent sound from it).search for 'IT' continues (and probably forever). This weekend I tested two things.

First one was new Moog Slim Phatty; this is not of course what I am looking for at the moment but it was again nice to hear these real moog filters. If you wanna 'that' sound in your studio Slim is very interesting thing in its price and size. But I am looking for a performance synth with good enough sounds, enough versatility and knobs. But second one (I even took it home over a weekend) was Nord Lead 2X. I kind of like its simplicity. And it has crystal clear very good sound quality.

I has unique VA-sound - not exactly what I am looking though. In fact all of them have quite unique sound, so in the end it's matter of taste which one is the best. But come on; we are living in 2010s. Lead 2X has 3 digits 'screen' to surf presets and do some editing; it doesn't have USB (and then forget all editing softwares). It would be little too painful for me to start to work with it. But this was the final nail in its coffin: its does not have enough polyphony. It has 4 parts multitimbrality which you can layer but when I tried to do a power strings, polyphone ran out very quickly.

So still it's kind of a rare thing to have real multitimbral VA-machines with enough polyphony. This is kind of surprice to me to find in this modern era of computers developing so fast. As performing keyboardist I'd like to get at least a multi-osc-pad sound in one hand and a lead in other and both of them with special FX. There're not that many hardware that can do that. EvilDragon wrote: Forget Arturia, they suck. Can you be more specific about Arturia? What's the main problem there?

To chime in here, Arturia seems to be more concerned with making their softsynths look like the original as opposed to sound like the original. There is this overall sameness to the character of their synths, and they truly don't come close in their goal of emulating the original. The CS-80V and JP-8 in particular are very disappointing. I get much better CS-80 emulations out of U-He's Zebra2, for instance. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but after my own tests (including real Moog and many VA-hardware) I went to buy Arturia Origin (I already had it once but I had to cancel the deal because of malfunctioning knobs).

M-audio Gforce Minimonsta Minimoog Modeled Synth

All I can say that it just sounds amazing. It has marvellous GUI with just right amount of knobs for my purposes. Only thing I am little worried is its build quality; Hopefully I just had a bad individual unit last time. Anyway I bought it from a big European Music Shop which has 30 days money back guarantee and 3 years warranty, so I have time check how liable it really is.

And I don't actually care how much there's difference to real JP8 for example. What I know for sure that Origins Minimoog sound amazing and it's much better (more warm and present) than Arturias (software) Minimoog V. Origin just has right specs for me: enough polyphony and multitimbrality, amazing vintage sounds, still capable of modern stuff as well. For me it seems that there's simply no competitor on market at the moment.

(Well, somebody might say Virus but I think it does not provide this vintage sounds equally well as Origin). Of course there's lot to improve; it has had lot of problems with its firmware. And Arturias updates are terribly far behind the original schedule.

But as I said, I am a kind of masochist, I don't want the simplest solution here. All I want is that my unit will last for years and let's see how it goes. Ecaroh wrote: Sorry to disappoint you guys, but after my own tests (including real Moog and many VA-hardware) I went to buy Arturia Origin Not disappointed at all (and not surprised). In fact it confirms what I just did.I returned a 'real' analog synth because I am quite satisfied with what I have. Don't get me wrong; real analog sounds great, but not phenomenally better justifying the cost. I got rid of my racks of outboard gear and 'wall of synthesizers ' years ago, so now I am used to the convenience and increased workflow, productivity, etc.

With my 'emulated' hardware. It felt like a step backwards. Another problem was the limitation of voices. We should have 32 voice analog synths today (at a reasonable price).

And midi should have been replaced with something faster by now (midi is 31k baud!). If synthesizer technology advanced like personal computers did we would have 500 voice analog keyboards with terabyte networking.

Instead, we have 35 year old electronic keyboards selling for $12,000 like they are fine wine or something.they're synths not Picassos! There's so much fanaticism on this field too. For sure there're people how would never buy any VA:s. Then there're others who doesn't even accept modern analog synthesizers with usb etc.

It has to be real vintage from 70s or something. For me this is mostly practical solution but I admit that there are also emotional factors in the game. I wanna have certain kind of sounds but also polyphony, multitimbrality and effects too. And in Origins case you have all this in very nice package. Of course all of us have our own personal issues: I do not easily accept sampled analog synth sounds to my rig. I wanna make my own sounds from the beginning. Somehow to me sampled analog sounds are 'fake' like VA-sounds are fake to real analog purists.

And of course we can have a clear link to piano debate: where's your position at the continuum of real acoustic - modeled - sampled piano? EvilDragon wrote: PolyEvolver is not really good for emulating old vintage synths - its main power are digital waveform oscillators, the fact that you have 2 analog and 2 digital oscillators (this is 4 osc per voice, that IS sick and powerful!). It is a really really flexible board, it does sound great, but is not the silver bullet and will not cut it for everyone.

I love how rough it can go - that's its specialty - cold, but fat, but cutting sound. Really really bad for pads.4 voices only. It should have been at least 6. That was part of the problem.it was a schism.a dichotomy.

Do you want to be analog or digital? The Prophet VS is about 30 years old now, and the Andromeda is relatively new.so why nothing 'really' new to replace both of them?

The PolyEvolver should have been something to 'replace' either one.it's just a bunch of mono synths for techno rolled into one. I'll stick with the versatility and convenience (and sound) of VA for now. I might consider two PolyEvolver racks (eight voices) for $1500, but you are chaining them together.the whole concept seems ridiculous. Outboard analog gear is just not worth it IMO.I came to that conclusion years ago, and you can't sell me on anything new (yet). Look at the technology of Pianoteq for example.this replaces real and sample based pianos (again, IMO).

Combine this with a great midi controller and you have something substantial. I believe that the same topology can be applied to analog gear.outboard gear is a PITA and not worth it.but that is just me. However, ED is always right, so I will keep my eyes and ears (and clouded mind) open.

Johnrule wrote: However, ED is always right, so I will keep my eyes and ears (and clouded mind) open. Now believing this can kill you. I know I'm not always right.

But I believe the man who did so much for synthesizer industry can't be wrong a lot. DSI stuff is remarkable, just not everyone's cup of tea. I, for one, like the way of chaining their instrument. You can have one PEK and just upgrade the voice count by getting PERs (racks). Yes it does cost a bit, but in that case you have a LOT of oscillator power at your disposal. 16 voices is 64 oscillators - that's PHAT!

EvilDragon wrote: I know I'm not always right. But I believe the man who did so much for synthesizer industry can't be wrong a lot. DSI stuff is remarkable, just not everyone's cup of tea. I have owned quite a few analog synths in my time, and there is nothing that special about them (that is why I sold them). In fact, After 'Watson' of its human competitors on Jeopardy recently I think I can be confident enough to say that 'digital is better than analog'. Maybe I am not the first to say that, but I'm sayin' it.digital is better than analog.

Maybe this is like the old 'tubes vs. Transistors' argument, but it becomes such minutiae at some point that I really don't care. The convenience factor alone is worth more $$ than a Moog Modular 55 IMO.well, maybe that was going too far! If I may chime in here I did have a number of analog synths when there weren't any emulations (early 90s).

I sold them all because they could do some sounds very nicely but not exacly enough of what I needed. The DX7 was far more versatile and usable to me, as was the Korg Wavestation. Of course that's apples and oranges, but digital is much more versatile and can deliver more 'polished' sounds. Contrary to analog which always needs more processing. That was a serious consideration in the 90s when we did not have endless EQ on our consumer mixing consoles. I was actually quite happy to dump all that dead freight before it could bestow on me any serious maintenance costs.

And I like working completely 'in the box'. The only remaining piece of hardware is a D-550 (not analog, but quite 'analogely feeling'). While there are zillions of VST emulations, I think only few are actually comparable with real analog circuitry. The main issues is the filter, sweeps and lower cutoff settings. True analog does keep a certain 'openness' with closed filter while most digital emulations get muffled and lifeless. I just listened to the comparisons on the OP-x page and I must say it is astounding how much difference there still is in filter sweeps between hardware and emulation.

And a filter is such a simple design compared to a acoustic piano (or so, they thought)! I don't use much 'analog' sounds today, but when I do it with emulations it often seems to me they are a bit too harsh. There may be exceptions and I do like the UltraAnalog by Applied Acoustic Systems for that matter, but I think by and large emulations are not quite there yet. That said, I would never want to go back to all that bulky hardware w/o total recall, with the associated schlep and with the damocles' sword of possible electric defect in decades-old circuit boards hanging over each power-up.

And yes, there is A LOT of romanticizing involved when folks talk about 'analog'. It's comparable to the fascination the middle ages have for many: they like the simple lifestyle and the cozy logfires, but they ignore the faeces, the perpetual war and looting, and the black death.

Marzzz wrote: Oh, in that case That's more like it.kinda puts the Dave Smith stuff in perspective. I don't know what he was thinking with his 4-voice concepts (I read at least 15 voices with the Solaris). It still has to knock-my-socks-off for $4000 though, but it looks like it will.

Thanks for that link. edit I spoke too soon (or posted too soon).it's digital (VA) with some analog components. My apologies Dave. After comparing some of the samples to my current VA sounds I really don't find it that compelling, but it is still one of the better offerings out there right now. I would really like to see a rack version though. To be honest, all the virtual/modelled analogue stuff I've dried just sounds tame and sanitized to me - I own half a dozen real analogue synths (mostly bought cheap in the 1990s when nobody else wanted them) - the best ones like my Octave Cat and Transcendent 2000 are just.nasty.

They have tons of limitations, but then so does a violin and a piano. Limitatins are good.

Real analogue synths tend to be proper musical instruments and you have to learn to play them properly and mine the best depths out of them. Feline1 wrote: to be honest, all the virtual/modelled analogue stuff I've dried just sounds tame and sanitized to me - I own half a dozen real analogue synths (mostly bought cheap in the 1990s when nobody else wanted them) - the best ones like my Octave Cat and Transcendent 2000 are just.nasty.

They have tons of limitations, but then so does a violin and a piano. Limitatins are good. Real analogue synths tend to be proper musical instruments and you have to learn to play them properly and mine the best depths out of them. There is nothing compelling enough about 'real' analog for me.not right now anyway. I sold my analog keyboards years ago because they were limited, and they still are.

I would be interested in something new but I am curious why there is so little to choose from.although. Really, every-time I convince myself that I need to get a real analog keyboard, I download all sorts of high quality files to compare with and I come to the same conclusion.it is just not 'knocking my socks off'. I go back to my old recordings to refresh my memory as to why I miss those keyboards I sold and I find that I am exaggerating the sonic quality in the mix. I spend a few hours going through my plugin presets and that brings me back to my senses. It's more psychological and tactile than anything else.and a bit about bragging-rights I suppose. If you spend $20,000 on outboard analog gear I guess you have the right to flaunt it, but you'll never convince me it is worth that price.and it doesn't impress me.

A month has passed with my Arturia Origin (desktop) and I must say I'm still VERY fascinated about it. In short, I have a strong feeling that this beast keeps me busy for a long time. There're so many things to tweak, enough power and polyphony, so for sure I am not missing any real analog or software at the moment.

I must also admit, that I have never had such a feeling with any software emulation. Origin has some strange 'warmness' which I never experienced with Arturia's plugins for example. Basically I am not too much worried how much does it sound like real Minimoog or Jupiter 8 (which are the templates in it at the moment. Waiting for updates for more ). Still I believe that we're close. For me it's enough to have fun with it and enjoy its sound and feeling of playing it. Also I have a feeling that I've just scratched the surface; there're many possibilities still unrealized.

For example I made a synth which has nine JP8-oscillators detuned and ran through filters and lfos and finally three part effect section. And I can play this homemade-supersawbeast with my righthand with another multisawsynthpad in my lefthand and Origin can handle this without trouble. Those of us who are crazy enough to make experiments like this, Origin is a marvelous thing. Anyway for myself old analogs cannot compete with this close-enough emulation with such a power. Of course I am just speaking for myself; everyone here has his own priorities and standards. On the other hand I have a feeling that someone must say sometimes something positive about Arturia; It seems to be kind of a fashion to dismiss this company.

Johnrule wrote: There is nothing compelling enough about 'real' analog for me.not right now anyway. I sold my analog keyboards years ago because they were limited, and they still are. I would be interested in something new but I am curious why there is so little to choose from.although. Really, every-time I convince myself that I need to get a real analog keyboard, I download all sorts of high quality files to compare with and I come to the same conclusion.it is just not 'knocking my socks off'. I go back to my old recordings to refresh my memory as to why I miss those keyboards I sold and I find that I am exaggerating the sonic quality in the mix.

I spend a few hours going through my plugin presets and that brings me back to my senses. It's more psychological and tactile than anything else.and a bit about bragging-rights I suppose. If you spend $20,000 on outboard analog gear I guess you have the right to flaunt it, but you'll never convince me it is worth that price.and it doesn't impress me. JR well, buy a virtual analog then What old machines did you used to have?

I just know that I generally can't get the same sounds from virtual stuff that I can from my unruly real ones, in general. There's advantages and disadvantages of both - usually to me it's practicality vs inspiration and 'that little extra bit of grit or magic' - a good example is Modartt's clavinet model in pianoteq vs my real D6 (which weights 26kgs, tends to go out of tune a big when gigged, picks up hideous amounts of 50Hz mains hum, and feeds back onstage from the monitors).

Feline1 wrote: What old machines did you used to have? ('real' analog keyboards) Moog Opus 3 Yamaha CS20M Sequential Circuits 6 trak Electro Harmonnix Mini (honorable mention) Yamaha CP35 Roland CR-78 Rhodes 88 (etc.) much of the Ensoniq and Kurzweil stuff It's typically the analog pad stuff that I reminisce about.the 6-trak also allowed stacking, so it had some really big sounds. The Yamaha CP35 had a connector for direct connection to the CS70M.I always lusted for that, the Prophet VS, and the Prophet T8. The things I do not miss are the lack of midi, the osc drift, lack of integration, the weight, repair, etc. With some of my more recent (and more commercial) plugins, I do find that I can recreate those sounds, and even surpass them.

I personally tend to glamorize the 'old analog' sounds, and I have to refresh my memory by actually comparing them to current plugins.works every time. I also have a Korg Oasys pci that has unsurpassed analog emulation IMO.sadly, I rarely use it because I feel like it is 'outboard' gear. The convenience of plugins is just too compelling (did I mention convenient?) for me. I can get inspired just fine with Reaktor, OPX, Minimonsta, Moog Modular, Oasys, SampleMoog and a few others. However, I did do a lot of analog stuff when I had those 'real' keyboards, so maybe it is just proximity (making use of what you have).

Feline1 wrote: There's advantages and disadvantages of both - usually to me it's practicality vs inspiration and 'that little extra bit of grit or magic' - I can't really think of any advantage with analog, but I will agree that there is a customer for both. I am still looking for that 'grit and magic' in a new keyboard, but everything seems to fall short. What are you using? The OP seems to have found his 'magic' with the Arturia Origin.

I always did like the idea of mixing and matching the bits to make something new, but I have Reaktor (not in the same class obviously, but similar capability). I have a Sixtrak myself. It is a bit of a mess, tuning-wise I also love my Roland Cr78 to bits, but it's not like you can really use it to fulfil all your drumming needs in 2011 lol To be fair, those 4 analogue machines you used to own are cute, but they are not really major league analogue synths - they all have pretty basic architecture, and don't let you do really crazy modulation routings. It's when you get analogue machines that have dual VCOs that can cross-mod each other and do FM that you get into a whole new territory. There's certainly very little you can do on an Opus 3 or Sixtrak that you couldn't easily do on a modern VSTi. I'd happily challenge any softsynth to beat my Octave Cat though.

I had it modded with a multimode filter and ring modulators and more. It's dangerous. Feline1 wrote: To be fair, those 4 analogue machines you used to own are cute, but they are not really major league analogue synths - they all have pretty basic architecture, and don't let you do really crazy modulation routings. The, and I am quite familiar with complicated modulation.how else would I use Reaktor and my Arturia Moog Modular? I do agree, they were not 'major league', but the analog circuitry was the same (generally).

It's the sound of a real oscillator compared to a digital oscillator that is my point of comparison (not modulation), and the Moog and SC (and Yamaha) were certainly valid for that reference. In terms of a more recent reference, I recently returned my Dave Smith Poly Evolver (rack) because it did not blow me away compared to my plugins. The modulation was certainly powerful, but it is not suited to producing 'pads' with only 4 voices. Yes, it can be expanded, but that seems cumbersome to me. He couldn't make it at least 6 voices? I am sure many people love it though. I admit that real analog filters have some advantage over most VAs ( the Oasys sounds very good however ), but it's not enough to be compelling for me.

Maybe just one analog keyboard (with poly-aftertouch) to sit beside my Numa. That Oberheim stuff looked interesting, but again, only 4 voices (and for almost $4,000!). Your Octave Cat mod sounds intriguing.was that a factory mod or something you did yourself? Can you upload something that I could use for comparison?

I guess I am saying that I accept your challenge! Octave had their own factory mods for the Cat that you could pay extra for - most of the circuit diagrams are lost, but I got a synth tech here in the UK to try his best guesses at them, he did a great job. My Cat is back with him being re-capped at the moment - back next week! Another thing that works wonders for any synth is playing it through a real amp, and a distortion pedal (my favourite is a £15 Rocktek 'Metal Worker'). People rarely play their VSTi's through anything but headphones or nice speakers! Feline1 wrote: Octave had their own factory mods for the Cat that you could pay extra for - most of the circuit diagrams are lost, but I got a synth tech here in the UK to try his best guesses at them, he did a great job.

My Cat is back with him being re-capped at the moment - back next week! (typical huh? Lol Another thing that works wonders for any synth is playing it through a real amp, and a distortion pedal (my favourite is a £15 Rocktek 'Metal Worker'). People rarely play their VSTi's through anything but headphones or nice speakers! I think difference between virtual analog ang pure analog is the same as difference between virtual sex of Playboy magazine and real sex with beatiful woman:-) I think the designation virtual analog is bad.

It has nothing to do with analog. It is a digital synthesizer. Sounds horrible for classic rock, blues, country etc.

Digital synths (VA, new workstations) are usable for use in electronica, hiphop, modern dance, pop, metal etc and in studio. Analog synths and analog keyboards are usable in all genres of music and sound perfect on stage as in studio. Maybe some ROMplers (Nord C2, Stage, Hammond SK-1 etc) have the same good sound as real analog vintage keyboards. I think difference between old vintage analog synthesizers and new analog synthesizers is the same as difference between vintage pure valve ampflifiers and new reissues. The new reissues (made in China in most cases) sound as totally other ampflifier, a dummy. New Moog Little Phatty has noticeably less soul and expression then Minimoog or Moog Prodigy e.g.